tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post3916381371884632795..comments2023-12-24T05:39:44.753-06:00Comments on Mike Klonsky's Blog: More than 80 years ago, Counts asked, "Dare the school build a new social order?"Mike Klonskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02017021676773731024noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-26895021576792796812015-02-08T08:00:26.386-06:002015-02-08T08:00:26.386-06:00Yes, educators can help build a new social order. ...Yes, educators can help build a new social order. They can't do it by themselves but they can and are having a powerful positive impact on many youngsters.<br /><br />Here's a recent example of district & charter educators working together to help youngsters from challenging backgrounds achieve far more than they thought possible:<br />http://www.minnpost.com/learning-curve/2015/01/dual-credit-programs-are-pushing-low-performing-students-complete-high-school<br /><br />Educators can, and in many cases, have helped young people see the value of being active, involved citizens who work for a better world. www.whatkidscando.org is a great place to find out more about these efforts.Joe Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02807286050245368716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-22904285988893550922015-02-08T06:40:25.589-06:002015-02-08T06:40:25.589-06:00Schools can't directly "fix" poverty...Schools can't directly "fix" poverty, of course. But the way traditional schools are designed reproduces poverty because kids are taught, directly, indirectly and through omission, that poverty is as natural and as unfortunate as natural disasters. Critical pedagogy challenges the whole idea that education can be "neutral" and it specifically teaches kids about the context in which socio-economic phenomenon occur and how poverty, racism, etc. have developed and have been used by the elites. It also challenges kids about what they personally can do about the ills of the world, now that they understand that it's not a natural condition but one created by the elite for their personal advantage. Kids explore both working within the civil system (attending meetings, writing letters, running for office themselves (when they're older, of course), as well as outside the system (protests, civil disobedience, etc.). It won't directly "fix" poverty, of course, but it gives kids the tools to challenge the system that perpetuates it. When the ruling class talk about education "fixing" poverty, Counts' ideas are most definitely *not* what they have in mind.Diennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570040547158789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-69514011517441422602015-02-05T22:02:00.460-06:002015-02-05T22:02:00.460-06:00I'm startled to find that two of my favorite e...I'm startled to find that two of my favorite educators, Deb Meier and Diane Ravitch, have such a traditional and narrow view on the role of schools and teachers as a force for social transformation. Currently the schools serve as more of an agency for social reproduction. That is, replicating, encouraging, and even enforcing the social inequities in the current system. Counts, Dewey, DuBois, Freire,... were right in seeing the school and its educators as potential sources of social change and advancement. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-1296897538946947202015-02-05T18:19:55.847-06:002015-02-05T18:19:55.847-06:00The ruling class sure think schools can preserve A...The ruling class sure think schools can preserve AND change the social order.<br />- FredFrednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-90221102325592889592015-02-05T18:18:41.189-06:002015-02-05T18:18:41.189-06:00Maintaining vs changing. Besides its a utopian ide...Maintaining vs changing. Besides its a utopian idea.<br />It's the struggle for good schools and housing and decent wages etc that changes the social order and with it out schools. I think DIANE is right. Putting it otherwise also sets them up.<br /><br />Furthermore lots of this is just about getting their hands on more money and the power that goes with it which includes convincing folks that there is no point in struggling for change. Illusions that schools are the villain or the savior are both dangerous.<br /><br />But it's a fun argument!Deb Meiernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-70381149485065711982015-02-05T18:14:54.519-06:002015-02-05T18:14:54.519-06:00The 1% think that schools can "fix" pove...The 1% think that schools can "fix" poverty. They say it again and again. Open enough charter schools, non-union, staffed by TFA, and one day all children will have an excellent education and great jobs.It's a hoax.<br /><br />It is surely cheaper than taxing the 1% and creating jobs (wartime jobs ended the Depression, not the schools).<br />Diane Ravitchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-47209031124784627562015-02-05T04:21:35.430-06:002015-02-05T04:21:35.430-06:00And if schools can't build a social order, why...And if schools can't build a social order, why are Walton and Broad and Koch so obsessed with it? A.K.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-64655227698223107062015-02-05T04:17:54.015-06:002015-02-05T04:17:54.015-06:00I love this piece. It's provocative. I may res...I love this piece. It's provocative. I may respond. Sooner or later.Deb Meiernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-34518546433837893532015-02-05T04:14:22.105-06:002015-02-05T04:14:22.105-06:00Wrong!
The school can't change the economic ...Wrong! <br /><br />The school can't change the economic or social structure. The school can't create jobs or build affordable housing. What the school does is crucial but insufficient to change the social order. <br /><br />Diane RavitchDiane Ravitchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-133521035538248322.post-12807155957994005342015-02-05T04:10:57.323-06:002015-02-05T04:10:57.323-06:00No, the schools can't build a "new social...No, the schools can't build a "new social order." They can't even get rid of standardized testing or VAM let alone nuclear weapons and climate change. Teachers, save a few, are much too timid and compliant to fight for their own interests, let alone others. Will Lorentsennoreply@blogger.com